S05 E02: How shared accountability and manager enablement shape lasting culture

Jodie O'Brien: Hello everyone and welcome to the fifth season of CultureClub X powered by CultureMonkey. I'm your host Jodie O'Brien.

CultureMonkey is an enterprise employee engagement platform that helps people leaders listen to their employees and enhance workplace cultures. CultureClub X powered by CultureMonkey is our community initiative where global leaders share best practices from their experiences and discuss all things company culture.

Jodie O'Brien: After the resounding success of our last season, we are back with our latest episode. We are very excited to have Elizabeth S Egan, Director of Talent Management and Organizational Development at Cerence AI for the second episode of CultureClub X. Welcome Elizabeth. It's a pleasure to host you today.

Elizabeth Egan: Thank you for having me, excited to be here.

Jodie O'Brien: I'm so excited to have you. So, Elizabeth is an organizational development leader who brings a rare blend of business and people insight to culture transformation.

She began her career on the business side, working in operations and finance, before an international assignment kind of reshaped her path. Tasked with building a team from the ground up, she saw firsthand how leadership, team dynamics, and workplace culture directly shape both business success and employee wellbeing. That pivotal moment led her to pursue her passion for people and the people side of business.

She returned to the US to earn her MBA in organizational development from Boston University. And she's since built a cross industry career spanning e-commerce, technology, construction, and the nonprofit space. From scaling leadership programs at Wayfair and PTC, to strengthening team dynamics and mission-driven organizations, Elizabeth here has always focused on being a help to companies who want to grow from the inside out through culture, leadership, and intentional people practices.

She's now based in Boston, where she's passionate about community as she is about organizational growth. And when she's not leading change at work, you'll likely find her coaching Pickleball, or competing on the court herself. Elizabeth, it is so great to have you with us today. I am so interested to learn about this pickleball situation and everything else you have.

Elizabeth Egan: Careful what you wish for Jody, because I could talk about pickleball all day.

Jodie O'Brien: I love it. Well, today we're going to talk about your business side, but we also need to, you know, edge in on that and find out all about this pickleball obsession you have. I love that. So many people love it today.

Well, welcome again to CultureClub X's videocast on Growth from the Ground Up: How Shared Accountability and Manager Enablement Shape Lasting Culture.

Elizabeth Egan: Yeah.

Jodie O'Brien: So before we begin, tell us a little bit more about yourself and the organization that you currently work for.

Elizabeth Egan: Sure, yeah, so you did a great job, appreciate it. Of putting me into one picture there.

So I did start out my career on the business side. And while I was doing that, a lot of the work that I ended up doing was really built on how the people leadership, people development, team building aspects were.

And that became clearer and clearer to me that I not only enjoyed that part of the business, but also really understood that a building block like that can make or break a company right and that was something that not only came natural to me, but also just invigorated me and that's where I just started to kind of shift the work that I was doing and went into positions that gave me a little bit more taste into that type of work, while I was still dabbling in some of that financial operational piece before I decided to go back and get my MBA to specialize in that.

And it's been such an exciting journey and part of it is because I'm able to take that experience that I had and think through my decisions as what does my end consumer, my end client, who is our employees. What are the benefits that are going to happen when we implement X strategy. What is it that's going to work best for team members, for managers? And what about the person who started, they graduated college, they started yesterday. How can I help them develop? And I think it's changed, it's adapted.

We have more technology now. We have different generations in the workforce. There's so many pieces that continue to make this puzzle more and more challenging, which I love. And I think that's where I just really started to excite myself in getting to know what some of those strategies are, what some of the goals are. And for different companies, they're at different stages. They're at different development pieces. They're at different sizes.

So there are so many pieces that go into that. And I think that's what makes this both exciting and challenging. And at the end of the day, for me, particularly rewarding. because I can see all of that played out day to day with my colleagues, my peers, my own leadership. And that's really exciting for me.

Jodie O'Brien: You know, the best thing that you said, which was the most, I mean, really interesting, was you calling your people clients. Because if you look at it like that, I mean, it changes everything.

We're used to looking at people outside of our company as the clients and the stakeholders, the people that we're interested in impressing. And instead, you're looking at the people within as your clients and who you really wanna make sure are happy, satisfied. I love that, that is so great.

Well, your impressive career path is beyond, but I'm really excited to have this further discussion with you. So without further ado, I have to ask you my first question, which is that we know that growth shouldn't be HR's job alone. And in that context, why should talent development be a shared responsibility across the organization, not just something that HR owns?

Elizabeth Egan: I love this question and I'm very excited that companies are starting to really ask this. And I think for so long HR has driven this and it's sort of something that people see as secondary. And now that companies are looking at this as a building block, I think that changes everything.

A company is only as good as its people. If you have the right people in place, you're more likely to accomplish what company goals are. You're asking them to be innovative, creative, collaborative, driven. Those things only come about when each individual feels connected to that shared vision and other people.

So you need an employee who is feeling confident in their abilities, and has the autonomy to complete their work. They need a manager who's supporting them throughout their day to day lives so that they continue that production. You need direct managers who understand how to grow, develop, engage employees.

You also need leaders who are going to be able to create those overarching goals, strategies, visions, and none of that works without each other.

So I like to think of it as a game of Jenga, right? So you have this solid base and you can build on top of it. But sometimes if you were to remove or leave gaps in critical places, you create some of that wobbling. And the key is to catch it before the wobble turns into something that falls.

And that's sort of the visual that I keep in my head as I'm going. Where are the places that somebody is going to feel reinforced? And then you can add a building block on top of that. Where is it that if you pull from this place, it will stand strong. It's okay. That piece has been built on already and there's more to be done there and we can switch it up and put something else onto somebody's plate. But where is it that if you poke through there, it all comes tumbling down?

And I think that's the kind of visual, I'm a visual person. That's the visual that I have in place when thinking through. Why is it that it's not just one person or one manager or one leader. It can't be just one of those things. It's everything woven into a structure together. You are all building the company together.

A company doesn't exist with just a CEO because there's nobody to do the other work. A company doesn't exist with just a management level because there's nobody to complete the work, nobody to set the vision. So then you just have the middle and there's no one to, there's no company if it's just an employee without having that understanding strategy, vision, goal setting.

You need all of those things and it doesn't matter if your company is large or small, medium, all of those things are still pieces that exist at that company. And so without all of them working together, and creating that vision, supporting, having autonomy, that tower will crumble. And HR going in trying to glue pieces as you go is only as helpful as having it reinvigorated back into the culture, having people believe in it, having managers stand by it, and having other leaders practice what they preach.

All of those things have to happen in conjunction to keep that tower strong and, you know, you keep building that block, and that Jenga puzzle as you're going.

Jodie O'Brien: You know, when you create that image there for us, I imagine that yard Jenga. So the one that they have at weddings, right? Where everybody is around it and we're all like, don't let it fall, you know? But, you know, we can't forget our responsibility within that game. So in your experience, what makes it hard for us as employees to take ownership of our own growth? And how can companies start to shift our mindset?

Elizabeth Egan: Yes, the very big ones. That's such a great question and I think it's probably the crux of a lot of where this comes from. Because there's a few factors.

The first is just not knowing. If you're a fresh graduate, you come out of school, you are used to having people hand you an assignment, you complete it, and then you wait for the next one. So what happens now that you don't necessarily have that structure? And you might be a manager who's new and you don't know how to create that plan. Maybe you are a new business and you're a new CEO and you haven't created the fully designed pipeline journey for careers.

You might be a large company and there's so many paths that somebody feels lost. So again, it's that combination effort. It starts with the individual. No one can design what success looks like to you or happiness or tell you what makes you feel accomplished.

So that's the first real step for each person is taking a look internally, thinking about it and thinking what makes me tick.

For some, that might be technical expertise in one subject. For some, it might be a people manager. For some, it might be the simple stability and knowing that they're in the position and they leave the office at five and they go care for their elderly parents.

And then for some, it's that constant challenge and trying to be a top performer and wanting to rise up the ranks into high levels of leadership. So whatever that is, the individual needs to find it and define it, shift and change over time. But to then build that path from there, we need companies that are supporting their teams and their employees to have that natural shift and support.

This is where day-to-day empowerment from managers to give opportunities so that leaders know, you know, here's this path that we built, but we need managers who are able to say, hey, let me tap you in for this. You've expressed some interest in this. Here's an opportunity that we have where you can partner with someone, gain exposure to this, challenge yourself a little bit. It also could be somewhere that you're maybe shadowing. And here's an opportunity for you.

You maybe not are putting in some of the actual work, but it's just to sit in this meeting, understand how this is going, hearing from people who are outside of your group.

But putting that power into managers hands to allow employees to have that opportunity is the first foremost part from the company side and pairing that with that drive from individuals to say, where am I at in my career? What am I looking for?

Giving that person that opportunity. And I think it's again, it's really putting that power back into individuals hands while saying we are a company that supports this. And if we can, make a path fantastic.

But here's a way that we are allowing you to tell us what you're looking for and best support it in that manner. Not everyone's journey is going to look exactly the same. I know that firsthand. But where are the opportunities where I can have exposure to some of those other pieces that allow me that new journey, that different piece of thinking, that new partnership? And I will say with that, companies benefit hugely. hugely. You have more innovation, more creativity, more collaboration.

All of those things benefit the company as well as the individual. And I think that's going to be the important thing as we look forward to companies as they grow, that they're putting that ability, autonomy back into employee and managers hands.

Jodie O'Brien: What a great answer, thank you.

Jodie O'Brien: Okay, so in talking about all of that, why is it so important to scale development across different roles and levels? And what challenges tend to get in the way? Because you know, there's a lot of personalities in a company.

Elizabeth Egan: Definitely.

It's a tough question because there will be constant shifting regardless of organization. So you have small, medium, large organizations that will shift and change as they continue in time, regardless of growth. You have small organizations that will face difficulty of maybe not having a ton of people move or space to move, levels to go into. Might be harder to have those title changes or promotions, but there are other opportunities for upskilling in ways like taking on tasks that you wouldn't have a chance to at a larger company.

So those are ways that you would say that's outside of scope or working with different teams. And those are the development levels that will happen at a smaller company that wouldn't be existing perhaps at a larger company. So that's an advantage there.

For larger companies, they are likely to have a path built out for all of their groups, which is great. And it's a standard way of doing it, which is very helpful. So that's a great way to look into it.

The piece there that could be challenging is if your path may veer off or not look exactly like the mold. So that's where you want to as an individual own that career. So finding those managers, leaders or whomever else who can expose you to something new, give you that new challenge, understand what you are looking to have exposure to, new tasks.

I mentioned earlier, even just shadowing somebody for some time or on a specific project is super helpful. There's oftentimes an understanding that you are only learning something if it's getting you higher up. And I want to negate that. I think that there are skills, regardless of whether or not it moves you up into a hierarchy, that you aren't learning.

And that's not true. There are so many skills that you will pick up outside of that ladder look and make you a better employee, make you a better manager, make you a better leader. And those are important regardless of what path you're on or what level that you're at currently.

So I also always want to encourage people if they can, to sit in some meetings that maybe you don't have any access to otherwise or they may not even be part of your group, but hearing how people are thinking, hearing how different groups are interacting, understanding it could be a regional change, it could be understanding how sales are done over here that can help you understand how financials work on this part.
And that really, understanding that work with other groups, that collaboration is going to help you yourself and again will help companies and companies I think who buy into this and understand this and assist with any of this learning are going to benefit the most.

They will gain the knowledge exposure and innovation that the person is going to have. And I think that that is where any company, regardless of size or roles, levels, there are challenges there, but there are benefits to when it goes well for both parties, individual and the company.

Jodie O'Brien: That's so true and so wonderful. We know that, like you said, growth doesn't just happen in workshops. It happens on the daily. So how can you, as a leader, encourage people at your organization, managers, leaders, to embed that learning into everyday work in a way that it actually sticks?

Elizabeth Egan: Right. I think that is one of the best questions, also one of the hardest. And I think there's, sometimes I think there's a kind of misthought that learning has to be sit down and look at this and here's this new thing.

And I think if we kind of go back to even, if you look at children when they're learning quote unquote, when they're babies, they are just looking at things that are happening around them. They see something happening and they mimic it. They understand something's happening over here.

Maybe I don't know, but I'm going to try this thing and see if it works. Does this square block fit into this round hole and they may try it a few times and it's gonna come back at them and it's gonna be a little frustrating but eventually they find the one that it works on.

And how exciting, and that's a new skill learned like that in the sense that when you look at it, you think, they've just learned it, but it took a period of time and it was an opportunity that they had. It was looking at something that was happening. It was exposure to something happening and it wasn't forced on them. It was part of an everyday gradual understanding, learning, watching, experiencing.

And I think if we look at it the same type of way, where you have a team member who is, come on over, take a look at this project. I'm gonna be going about it this way. And if you're learning something, great. Maybe you see something that I don't because I've looked at this every day for the past five weeks and I am just seeing what I'm seeing. But maybe you have a new vantage point that helps me be able to create the square, you know, peg for the square hole, whatever that widget might be.

And similarly, the person who's looking on can say, wait a minute, I get it now. I've seen this a few times, I didn't understand it at first, but now I have the exposure to this and I've seen this in meetings and I'm able to tie it back now. And I think without having the pressure of you must learn this in this way and this is how we're going to do it, a manager is able to be more natural.

They can talk about it in a way that's productive and also applicable to the actual work being done. And then sometimes there's, again, new opportunity for people as they come in and they say, "Oh I have a question about this, why do we do this?"

Well, that's a great question. We've been doing it this way, but let's talk about that. Maybe that's not how we have to do it. I think that benefits both. So, to answer the question, I don't know that there's necessarily a strict manner in how you have to teach or how you have to learn, but I think exposure, understanding, communication, and collaboration are going to be your best friends.

Anytime you sit somebody down and you're trying to have them memorize something, it isn’t the same as learning. Those are very different things.

So trying to kind of encourage the discussion, the collaboration, the understanding is going to benefit both parties. And again, for companies, that is your bottom line that will benefit as well. So something to consider as you're thinking through programmatic approaches, how can you get more people, more understanding, more exposure, bringing in real time problem solving so that you can have that opportunity for other people to look at it, as well as learn from people who have done it before.

Jodie O'Brien: You know, we've all had good managers and we've all had not so good managers. But the one similarity is they are often at the very heart of engagement. So how can we continue to support them, not just in those tasks that we've talked about and bringing the employee alongside in those tasks, but to lead culture?

Elizabeth Egan: That is, I think, a top tier difficulty and question as we go. Managers are people too. Right? So you are going to have people that you connect with immediately. You are going to have people that challenge you. You are going to have people that frustrate you. And all of those things are natural and part of life.

And no matter what, you will learn something, whether you are the manager or the employee, that you will be on both ends of that spectrum and you will learn something both ways.

So I think one of the benefits, if you have something in place as a company like a recognition program or something there that can really assist you, from a manager side to give you some exposure to what's the feedback here? What's happening from other people? Where are there leaders within my group that maybe I wasn't aware of? Where is there somebody that might be more of the silent type leader, but I can see they are the go-to for the rest of my team. I want to tap into that. I want to support that. I want to see what they're doing and making sure that they feel rewarded as well. So recognizing them, but keeping track of that too and understanding that.

Also, from an employee standpoint, if I have, as you mentioned, maybe a manager who isn't somebody who is going out of their way to give me some of those opportunities or understands what some of my path might be, there are definitely ways that I can utilize the other people, the other network around me, it might be a skip level conversation. So those are natural. That seems to be something people have a little bit of hesitancy on. But setting up a skip level meeting is pretty normal, And you just call it that. This is a skip level meeting so I can understand what's happening at the higher level leadership. I just want to have exposure here.

That's a great way to make connection with somebody at a higher level, if you have the opportunity. And that's somewhere where you as the individual would set an agenda. Don't go in expecting them to just talk to you or at you. Set an agenda. What are you going in to learn? What are you going in to understand? This is not going to be a two hour meeting. 30 minutes tops. But just giving you that exposure, understanding and connection.

The other piece, if you have a mentorship program at work, that's a great way to tap into other places, other groups, other leaders who might be available for you to have those conversations with. And then the other piece might be a colleague or a peer. They may have been there longer. They may be that silent leader that you happen to be going to. Utilizing people around you is going to be just as important as your direct manager.

We all hope that we have direct managers who are supportive and understanding and are somebody who is giving us opportunity. If that's not the case, I am the one at the end of the day who is owning my own career. I am going to be living it day to day. So I want to find somebody who is able to support me in that. That is still a task I should be undertaking. If it's not my manager, who else might it be? Who else is able to assist me with that? That's also going to be a very important part of your journey.

And there's a plethora of people, I promise you, at every company who want to help, who want to have that conversation, who want to help you on your journey, it's the process of finding them. So join one of your company groups. They have ERGs, most companies. There's probably a networking conference. There's happy hours at the office, and different opportunities for you to connect. Tap into those opportunities if you can.

Jodie O'Brien: I love that. So it sounds like the simple habits that managers can pick up like recognition and transparency will really help managers build that stronger day to day cultural impact at the company, which is great. Well, it's clear from today's chat, obviously clear from today's chat that real growth doesn't just come from formal programs or top down initiatives. It comes from shared ownership.

Elizabeth Egan: Yes.

Jodie O'Brien: When employees and everyone at the company, including managers, take responsibility for development. That's when culture really seems to shift. We talked about what it takes to embed learning into everyday work, how to make development feel inclusive and scalable, and the kind of support that managers need to become true culture leaders, not just task owners.

At the end of the day, culture is built in the small everyday moments and it's the people closest to the work who can make the biggest impact.

It was such a delightful conversation today Elizabeth, and we learned so much today. Let our viewers know how they can connect with you to share their thoughts or ask additional questions on this topic.

Elizabeth Egan: Thank you so much for having me, Jodie. And yes, I am on LinkedIn. Please feel free to look me up. I am under ‘Elizabeth S. Egan’, and I'm happy to connect and chat anytime.

Jodie O'Brien: Wonderful. She's on the LinkedIn. If everybody heard that, that's what I call it too. The LinkedIn. Thank you again for tuning in everybody. Don't forget to follow us, share and rate this podcast. And as always, keep listening to your people and leading with purpose.

Again, a huge thank you to Elizabeth for sharing your wisdom, lived experience and practical advice with us today. Conversations like this help move the needle on what modern engagement can and should look like.

So that's all we have for you in this episode of CultureClub X powered by CultureMonkey. Until next time, I'm your host Jodie O'Brien, signing off.